Tuesday, December 01, 2009

Volume the Third: Questions to the End of Emma.
An interactive graph on the popularity of the name Emma – when this book was written, it was common, then it became very uncommon, and now it has experienced a resurgence, from this article:

The possible first use of the name Emma was Emma of Lesum or Emma of Stiepel (also known as Hemma and Imma). She was the first female inhabitant of Bremen to be named Emma and it believed to have been born between 975-980 in Saxony which is now Bremen-Burglesum, Germany. She was a countess popularly venerated as a saint for her good works.

One of the first records of the name Emma was "Emma of Normandy". She was the mother of Edward the Confessor: Emma lived from 985 or 988 until 1052. She was Queen consort of the Kingdom of England twice, first as the second wife to Ethelred the Unready of England (1002-1016); and then again to Canute the Great of Denmark (1017-1035).

POPULARITY: Emma as a girls name: In the 1880 decade it was the 3rd most popular girls name, and in 2000 decade it was the 4th most popular name. That does not mean it has been popular all that time. From 1890 these was a slow decline in popularity until 1940 where it was the 124 most popular girl name. There was a quick drop in popularity and by 1970 it was 448th popular girl name. Emma has been becoming more popular again, in the 1980 it was back up to 252 and 1990 it was the 56 most popular girls name. Emma has been the 2nd most popular girls name from 2003 to 2006.

Emma as a boys name: In the 1880 decade it was 584th popular boys name and quickly dropped to 847th by 1990's. It does not seem to be used as a boys name since the early 1900's.


On to the questions:

1)In Chapter 3 Harriet is frightened by an encounter with gipsies (sic) and is rescued by Frank. Emma misreads the interaction as she is wont to do. Despite Emma’s best efforts, the incident gets out and becomes the talk of the town. What do we learn from this scene, and what did you think about it?

2)In Chapter 8, Emma begins to have a realization about her behavior …Now Emma was obliged to think of the piano forté; and the remembrance of all her former fanciful and unfair conjectures was so little pleasing, that she soon allowed herself to believe her visit had been long enough; and, with a repetition of every thing that she could venture to say of the good wishes which she really felt, took leave. Did you think that Emma’s realization about her shallowness was handled well? Did you find it believable?

3) Upon Mrs. Churchill’s death in Chapter 9, we read: “Mrs. Churchill, after being disliked at least twenty-five years, was now spoken of with compassionate allowances. In one point she was fully justified. She had never been admitted before to be seriously ill. The event acquitted her of all the fancifulness, and all the selfishness of imaginary complaints.” Why was this quote included and what do you think it illustrates?

4) The revelation that Frank and Jane have been secretly engaged provokes another self-revelation for Emma: “Poor Harriet! to be a second time the dupe of her misconceptions and flattery. Mr. Knightley had spoken prophetically, when he once said, "Emma, you have been no friend to Harriet Smith."—She was afraid she had done her nothing but disservice…Common sense would have directed her to tell Harriet, that she must not allow herself to think of him, and that there were five hundred chances to one against his ever caring for her.—"But, with common sense," she added, "I am afraid I have had little to do." How has Emma treated Harriet and does she truly realize the severity of her behavior?

5) As Mr. Knighly and Emma become more and more in love, finally he asks her: "And cannot you call me 'George' now?"
Her reply is: "Impossible!—I never can call you any thing but 'Mr. Knightley.' I will not promise even to equal the elegant terseness of Mrs. Elton, by calling you Mr. K.—But I will promise," she added presently, laughing and blushing—"I will promise to call you once by your Christian name. I do not say when, but perhaps you may guess where;—in the building in which N. takes M. for better, for worse."
Given what we discussed earlier about the use of formal names in English Society, what does this exchange indicate?

6) We end the book with “The result of this distress was, that, with a much more voluntary, cheerful consent than his daughter had ever presumed to hope for at the moment, she was able to fix her wedding-day—and Mr. Elton was called on, within a month from the marriage of Mr. and Mrs. Robert Martin, to join the hands of Mr. Knightley and Miss Woodhouse.
The wedding was very much like other weddings, where the parties have no taste for finery or parade; and Mrs. Elton, from the particulars detailed by her husband, thought it all extremely shabby, and very inferior to her own.—"Very little white satin, very few lace veils; a most pitiful business!—Selina would stare when she heard of it."—But, in spite of these deficiencies, the wishes, the hopes, the confidence, the predictions of the small band of true friends who witnessed the ceremony, were fully answered in the perfect happiness of the union”
Is it a satisfactory ending?

7) Finally – what are your overall impressions of the book? Are there any questions I missed?

Thank you to everyone for participating! I love the interaction of the questions and answers and have really enjoyed reading along with you. Are we up for another in Lent?

10 Comments:

At 7:59 PM , Blogger Marsha said...

1)In Chapter 3 Harriet is frightened by an encounter with gipsies (sic) and is rescued by Frank. ...What do we learn from this scene, and what did you think about it?


Ok, several things. One is Harriet is a big baby, even given the times. I thought her reaction had no dignity. Two, that Emma is very invested in controlling her world ie., finding Harriet a partner so she won't feel guilty for misleading her previously; and getting the supposed infatation of Frank off her back.

(2)In Chapter 8, Emma begins to have a realization about her behavior ...Did you think that Emma’s realization about her shallowness was handled well? Did you find it believable?

I did, actually. I found that it wasn't overdone (oh woe is me!) and that alone made it more believable. maybe it's just me, I like Emma and cut her some slack!!

(3)Upon Mrs. Churchill’s death in Chapter 9,..Why was this quote included and what do you think it illustrates?

Social satire, I suppose.

4) The revelation that Frank and Jane have been secretly engaged provokes another self-revelation for Emma:...How has Emma treated Harriet and does she truly realize the severity of her behavior?


This was very believable to me I suppose because I've had to confront similar things. Sometimes in our efforts to control all for one's own good, of course, we do untold damage. I thought her horror and remorse appropriate.

5) As Mr. Knighly and Emma become more and more in love, finally he asks her: "And cannot you call me 'George' now?" ....Given what we discussed earlier about the use of formal names in English Society, what does this exchange indicate?

That she respects him? That she likes to tease him? That she knows capitulating too soon won't be as fun? To me, there was an element of playfulness in it.

6) We end the book with ....Is it a satisfactory ending?

OK, personally I breathed a sigh of relief when she married Knightley. For some reason, her constant manipulation and scurrying about would have a focus, and she could actually give herself to something: the farm, her husband, kids perhaps, etc.

7) Finally – what are your overall impressions of the book? Are there any questions I missed?

Probably my favorite Austen novel. I saw lots of myself in Emma sometimes, and her learning and maturation gives one hope :-). I didn't see her getting married at the end as "giving up"...I mean, who would want to be stuck with the ever more querulous Mr. woodhouse?

And Harriet got married to the one person she perhaps should have. I still didn't care a grat deal for Jane Fairfax, who seemed overly serious and correct, but perhaps we weren't meant to.

Yes, I'll do another in Lent.

 
At 8:21 AM , Blogger Lauren S. said...

1. I don't necessarily think Harriet was a baby. I think most young women, even in our own time, but especially back then would have behaved similarly in that situation.

Of course the town talks of it because what could be more fun to talk about than a fair maiden in distress being rescued by a handsome young man that has already been an object of interest to the small town.

Then Emma, being Emma, can't help herself by trying to control her friend, and distance herself from Frank.

2. I too, like Emma. This shows maturation, and a teachable spirit and heart. Her sincerity is very believable.

3. Austen is showing a truth of human nature here. When people die, even if they weren't generally popular or liked, people will soften toward them or even talk of connections with the person - connections that may not have even been really true. It's quite curious.

4.I thought this showed almost a type of providence that Mr. Knightly had over her. As we go on in the story and learn that he had always loved Emma, you get a sense of his tending to her, or almost a training her to be his wife. And it was good for her, because she was teachable and realized her wrongs and sincerely wanted to do right by her friend. I think this is why she backs off from Hariet for a while. She completley comprehends how her meddling has potentially messed up some one else's life.

5. Well, we learna that Mr. Knightly has always loved her, since she was 13!! Can you imagine that today? Ha! Emma though, realizes, like an epiphany that she loves him, though she always had. I think the "Mr. Knightly" talk was playful banter of two people in love.

6. I loved the ending. I enjoyed that we still get to dislike Mrs. Elton, and that you know Emma and Mr. Knightly were meant to be together.

7. A great book...One I should like to read again one day. What did you think of Frank buy the end of the book? I thought it was funny that Mr. Knightly really couldn't bring himself to truely like him though he did make some concessions for after the letter.

As far as Emma, I saw lots of her in myself too! I've tried my hand of matchmaking too often only to whish I had never said anything or tried to pursuade anyone in the first place.

Thanks for the discussion, Mimi. I'd love to do this again!

 
At 1:33 PM , Blogger Mimi said...

1)Firstly, I researched the Roma people during college, and found this interaction very intriguing, and I was really disappointed the “gipsies” weren’t delved into further (because, of course, Jane Austen should have foreseen that I’d be curious about it , grin).
I can see both sides about Harriet’s reaction- yes it was an overreaction, but she’s also been fairly sheltered and it was outside the norm. I think I giggled when Emma totally botched the entire interaction – she just could not get out of her own way. But, I also agree with what Marsha said is that in this way, she could get out of liking Frank in her mind, because Frank was now Harriet’s.

2) Did you think that Emma’s realization about her shallowness was handled well? Did you find it believable? I did, and was pleasantly surprised at Emma’s realization – I’d somehow gathered the impression she was clueless at the beginning of the book, and clueless at the end. I can definitely relate to that discovery of a very cobweby and unpleasant part of oneself, and the feelings as one goes through clearing the cobwebs and assessing, reassessing, and assessing some more. I thought that Austen did a very good job of portraying that.

3) Why was this quote included and what do you think it illustrates? I liked this quote because it nails human nature so well – the way we tend to react to a death and to our memories of the person who has recently died.

4) How has Emma treated Harriet and does she truly realize the severity of her behavior? As previously mentioned, I really liked the way that Austen explored Emma’s realization of her behavior. And, poor Harriet, being “helped” by Emma was certainly no help. I was pleased when she married Mr. Martin, though, as I was sad when they didn’t get married at the beginning.

5) Given what we discussed earlier about the use of formal names in English Society, what does this exchange indicate? I also took this as gentle teasing, and a growth in their relationship. I am a hopeless romantic, and these kinds of scenes (although I’d skimmed the 13 thing, especially since he is basically my age – late 30s) make me happy. I liked it, and liked her rejoinder.

6) I am admitting, blush, I’d forgotten or missed that Mr. Elton was a preacher. Whoops. I loved the ending – I was really skeptical at how I’d like the character of Emma, and I really enjoyed her, and her growth throughout the novel.

This was a delightful read, and I preferred it to “Pride and Prejudice” (which I didn’t dislike in any way). I am looking forward to reading more Austen, and really had a lovely time discussing it! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

 
At 7:46 PM , Blogger Marsha said...

I have read most of Austen, and I do truly think this is my favorite! And I think the movie "Clueless" which I had no idea was about "Emma" because I completely hated the movie LOL, did it any justice at all!!

I'm headed for "Anna Karenina", wanna join me?

 
At 12:29 PM , Blogger Suzanne said...

Feeling out of the reading club here, but its nice. :) Just dropped by to say "Hi!" :)
Suz

 
At 5:40 PM , Anonymous Grace said...

I really fell behind, so for right now I can only weigh in on the first question--

1 - the "gipsies" - oy! Don't you wish Austen were around today to rewrite this odious little portion? In all the book, this stands out as something bizarre and rather ugly. Were begging children really held in such low regard that even unassuming Harriet is simply terrified and Frank Churchill has to leave immediately to inform Mr. Knightley that such undesirables are lurking about the parish?? I suppose it accurately reflects the sentiments of the day (since I can't detect any irony by Austen in this passage), but it's embarrassingly classist and unkind.

I'll try to finish up soon and get in on the rest of the goodies.

 
At 5:58 PM , Blogger Sarah in Indiana said...

1)I thought it was really the other woman who was the big baby. She actually screamed and ran away. I think it might be a little overwhelming to left on your own, surrounded by a swarm of unfamiliar people. Insistent beggars can feel a little threatening. There are classist aspects to Austen's works, but I've never thought of this scene particularly as one of them. I think Harriet and the friend come off worse than the children.
Obviously they didn't truly mean her any harm, since an injured woman would have been a sitting duck, so it does seem like Harriet overreacts after the fact.

Emma's whole misreading of it is funny. I like how Austen frames it so the reader can see who Harriet means when they're talking about it, and why Emma thinks she means Frank. Emma's definitely pleased to that Harriet has transferred her affections.

2)It's really nice to see Emma's growth. I think we've all had instances like this when we've looked back with embarrassment on how we've behaved or treated others. I like this aspect of the book a lot.

3)I think this is classic Austen social commentary, and it nails human nature so well.

4) I think in the instance where Emma thinks Harriet is interested in Frank, her behavior isn't that bad. It's much better than the whole Mr. Elton debacle. The main thing is there is the misunderstanding. If she'd known from the beginning Harriet was interested in Mr. Knightly she would have behaved much differently! But overall, she meddles too much and learns her lesson. It's necessary to the plot that it works out for Harriet in the end or it would have been much harder for the reader to forgive Emma for it.

5) This does seem like a teasing exchange, and it illustrates the change in their relationship. We do see spouses in other Austen books call other Mr. and Mrs. in public. One can only assume they would use Christian names in private, though. It's so funny to modern American readers, since Mr. and Mrs. are used so rarely now. The 13 thing is also weird for modern readers! Today that would seem totally creepy, but 13 wouldn't have been that far off from marriageable then.

Anyone know what n. and m. stand for in this instance? Is this like x and y? Or Latin abbreviations?

6) Yes, very satisfactory for the reader. I wonder how it would be in real life though? Nice for Emma, but it seems like it would be really rough on Mr. Knightly to lose his independence and move in with Mr. Woodhouse. He must have been seriously besotted. It's very kind and generous of him though, Emma's a lucky girl.

7) It was fun to read again--it had been a really long time. I liked it a great deal, but I still think it's not my favorite Austen. Maybe Emma's flaws hit too close to home for me to enjoy it as much as some of the others!

I'd enjoy doing another book in Lent.

 
At 8:12 AM , Anonymous Grace said...

Well, I continue to not be able to find good reading time, so I'll just finish up in my own time. But I do want to jump to #7, the other questions part. Two things occurred to me:

1. The more I think of it, the more Frank Churchill seems like a thoroughly bad sort. There's a malicious quality to his immaturity that you don't see with Emma's. So my question is, what odds do you give his marriage to Jane? I think they'd have a rocky time of it.

2. In a chapter where Mrs. Weston and Emma let Mr. Knightly know they think he's smitten with Jane Fairfax, he responds that he could never love her because she lacks the "open temper" he prizes in a woman. (He says it again for emphasis, and it's one of those hints that Emma never seems to pick up on.) At the point that he reveals his feelings to Emma, he says, "But you hear nothing but truths from me. I have blamed you, I have lectured you, and you have borne it as no other woman in England would have done."

It's incredibly romantic, IMHO. It's a hint of the true attraction between people that a male author probably wouldn't have gotten so well (at least in the 1700's). But ... what does Knightly mean by 'an open temper?' What is it about his lecturing and her bearing it that makes that such a strong bond, and one that blossoms into love?

 
At 11:39 AM , Blogger Mimi said...

Marsha - of course, I'm in!

Suzanne - hi! Waves.

Grace - I agree about the Roma/Traveler interaction being very indicitive of the time that it was written, and cringe worthy now.

Sarah - I think we've all had instances like this when we've looked back with embarrassment on how we've behaved or treated others. I like this aspect of the book a lot. I agree very much - and perhaps this is why I found the character to resonate so well instead of being annoying - since I definitely have had (and continue to have) that experience of totally messing up something, and then looking back and wincing. I loved Emma's growth.

Yes, I took n. and m. to be an "insert name here" type of situation.

Marsha - I didn't see her getting married at the end as "giving up"...I mean, who would want to be stuck with the ever more querulous Mr. woodhouse? I agree - it's not a situation of giving up, it's a situation of realizing that she loved Mr. Knightly and growing up.

I also agree, Lauren, that he must love Emma a lot to take on Mr. Woodhouse. And, I've seen that in real life too - it's a blessing and a trial to move in with one's in-laws.

 
At 10:42 AM , Anonymous The Huge Travel said...

Thank you for shariing

 

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