Book Four – Three Love Problems. (Links to Books One, Two, and Three.)
1) Dorothea is among those who watch Mr. Featherstone’s funeral procession from a window. She makes the comment to Celia, “"I am fond of knowing something about the people I live among," said Dorothea, who had been watching everything with the interest of a monk on his holiday tour. "It seems to me we know nothing of our neighbours, unless they are cottagers. One is constantly wondering what sort of lives other people lead, and how they take things. I am quite obliged to Mrs Cadwallader for coming and calling me out of the library." (Chapter 34)
What do you think of the group that watches the funeral from the window, and why do you think they make that decision? Do you agree with Dorothea’s statement, and how do you think it shapes her interaction with her Middlemarch neighbors?
2) In Chapter 35 we hear of the contents of Mr. Featherstone’s will. What did you think of how items were distributed? What did you think of the character’s reactions to the will? Were you surprised about Joshua Rigg?
3) In Chapter 36, we see Rosamond “handling” her father. What did you think this revealed about each of their characters, and about the impending wedding and Rosamond’s relationship with Lydgate? Do you think that Mr. Vincy gave his blessing willingly?
4) In Chapter 37, we learn more about the political issues of England at the time, and Mr. Brooke’s interest in becoming involved in them. How has the book impacted your opinion and knowledge of the Reform Act? What do you think about Mr. Brooke’s interest in politics, and of his purchase of The Pioneer and his hiring of Ladislaw? What do you think of the friendship between Ladislaw and Brooke?
5) Later in the same chapter, there is an exchange of letters between Mr. Casaubon and Ladislaw. What did you think of this exchange, and of each of their actions, and how do they impact Dorothea?
6) Will and Dorothea discuss religion in Chapter 39:
"Please not to call it by any name," said Dorothea, putting out her hands entreatingly. "You will say it is Persian, or something else geographical. It is my life. I have found it out, and cannot part with it. I have always been finding out my religion since I was a little girl. I used to pray so much -- now I hardly ever pray. I try not to have desires merely for myself, because they may not be good for others, and I have too much already. I only told you, that you might know quite well how my days go at Lowick."
"God bless you for telling me!" said Will, ardently, and rather wondering at himself. They were looking at each other like two fond children who were talking confidentially of birds.
"What is / your / religion?" said Dorothea. "I mean -- not what you know about religion, but the belief that helps you most?"
"To love what is good and beautiful when I see it," said Will. "But I am a rebel: I don't feel bound, as you do, to submit to what I don't like."
"But if you like what is good, that comes to the same thing," said Dorothea, smiling.
"Now you are subtle," said Will.
What do you think of this exchange? How is Eliot’s life and beliefs mirrored in their thoughts? How well does it reflect the cultural milieu of England at the time?
7) Mr. Casaubon contemplates Dorothea’s relationship with Ladislaw at the end of Chapter 42: "In marrying Dorothea Brooke I had to care for her wellbeing in case of my death. But wellbeing is not to be secured by ample, independent possession of property; on the contrary, occasions might arise in which such possession might expose her to the more danger. She is ready prey to any man who knows how to play adroitly either on her affectionate ardour or her Quixotic enthusiasm; and a man stands by with that very intention in his mind -- a man with no other principle than transient caprice, and who has a personal animosity towards me -- I am sure of it -- an animosity which is fed by the consciousness of his ingratitude, and which he has constantly vented in ridicule of which I am as well assured as if I had heard it. Even if I live I shall not be without uneasiness as to what he may attempt through indirect influence. This man has gained Dorothea's ear: he has fascinated her attention; he has evidently tries to impress her mind with the notion that he has claims beyond anything I have done for him. If I die -- and he is waiting here on the watch for that -- he will persuade her to marry him. That would be calamity for her and sucess for him. / She / would not think it calamity: he would make her believe anything; she has a tendency to immoderate attachment which she inwardly reproaches me for not responding to, and already her mind is occupied with his fortunes. He thinks of an easy conquest and of entering into my nest. That I will hinder! Such a marriage would be fatal to Dorothea. Has he ever persisted in anything except from contradiction? In knowledge, he has always tried to be showy at small cost. In religion he could be, as long as it suited him, the facile echo of Dorothea's vagaries. When was sciolism ever dissociated from laxity? I utterly distrust his morals, and it is my duty to hinder to the utmost the fulfilment of his designs.
What does this betray about his opinion of Dorothea and of Ladislaw? What do you think he thinks about his health and his future wellbeing? How does he relate to Lydgate? Does he trust his medical opinion?
8) We end Chapter 42 and this section with Dorothea ruminating on her marriage to Causabon. What do you think of their relationship and what have they learned about each other? The end of the chapter states: "Dorothea!" he said, with a gentle surprise in his tone. "Were you waiting for me?"
"Yes, I did not like to disturb you."
"Come, my dear, come. You are young, and need not to extend your life by watching."
When the kind quiet melancholy of that speech fell on Dorothea's ears, she felt something like the thankfulness that might well up in us if we had narrowly escaped hurting a lamed creature. She put her hand into her husband's, and they went along the broad corridor together.
What did you think about her decision, and about the ending of this chapter and section?
9) The name of this book is “Three Love Problems” What are the three love problems, and have they been resolved by the end of the section?
10) Anything that I have missed?
posted by Mimi @ 3/09/2010 02:13:00 PM
13 Comments
13 Comments:
book 4! I havent had a chance to comment on book 1 yet! :-)
Are we still in the era of it being unacceptable for women to attend burials?
@Kat - that's ok, they'll stay up.
@Margaret - Hummmm, that's a good point. Although, it seems that other women were at the funeral. I'll have to go back and read that.
1)Margaret brings up a good point that perhaps the culture of the time didn’t allow Dorothea to attend the funeral – although, I’ll need to go back and re-read as I was under the impression other women were there. What intrigued me about this quote is twofold – one being that we still live in a society where we don’t tend to know our neighbor’s business – for both good and bad. The second is that she comments that she does know about the cottagers’ lives. I find that very interesting.
2)I was surprised to discover that Mr. Featherstone had a “love-child” I felt that the distribution of property was fair, but felt the disappointment of those who expected to get more.
3)Somehow, I was shocked about this – I’d kind of looked at Rosamond and Lydgate as a romantic and well suited couple, and this added a layer to Rosamond that does not bode well for the relationship. I’m also not a fan of “handling” other people, and that does make it a distasteful scene for me.
4) When Ali mentioned the Reform Act, I had to Google, as I really had no knowledge or memory of it. I think that Eliot is doing a very good job of introducing the issues. Mr. Brooke’s interest in politics kind of strikes me as a romantic ideal of what politics is, and a very upper class decision, but then I think that it makes sense in the politics of the time. It is interesting that he is using Ladislaw as his mouthpiece.
5) I find that Casaubon’s jealousy of Ladislaw is quite petty and reflects poorly on his character. I also think that he allows it to eat at his heart, and affect his relationship with Dorothea.
6) The little I know about Eliot is reflected in this exchange – as I gather, she was quite dogmatic as as young woman, and grew to be less so in her later years. I also think that it is a reaction to the pervasive and prevailing Puritanism of the time.
7) Again, I see Casaubon’s heart as being a blackened shell by this point, and his attitude to Dorothea to be shameful. I also think it accurately portrays the fact that he feels that he needs to control her, even after his death.
8) And yet, I think that the ending of this chapter and section has a sweetness to it. In a way, I think that Dorothea is able to break out of her disappointment and hurt and to actually forge a relationship and a fondness for him. I don’t think I’d necessarily classify it as happiness, or true love, but perhaps resignation at where they are at.
9) I think that the three love problems are Fred and Mary; Dorothea and Causabon; and Lydgate and Rosamond. I am not sure they’ve been solved, but they’ve been advanced.
Oh nice, I mis- numbered the questions. Sorry about that.
1. I just took it as simple people watching. It wasn't like there were tv shows and blogs to peek into other people's lives. A large procession of people would be quite interesting! Also, social walls would make witnessing other groups all the more intriguing.
2. I had a bad feeling about that will! It was rather sad that Mary had a hand in more of Fred's poor luck. The character's reactions were typical and it was funny how they held their breath in hope that Featherstone wasn't a complete jerk, but once it was established that indeed, he was a complete jerk, they all finally let it be known they knew he was one! I was surprised by Joshua Rigg, and am still trying to figure out what looking like a frog means to one of that period in time and location. Was he Bi-racial?
3. Well, it certainly isn't unheard of - a beautiful young daughter having her father wrapped around her pinky finger. It shows her manipulative powers, I suppose. And you know a girl who is used to getting what she wants will pretty much continure wanting the same thing once she is married.
4. OK...I sorta breezed through this stuff because I had never heard of it. But I do think it is interesting how Brooke has purchased The Pioneer to much of his neighbor's irritation. And I think his relationship with Ladislaw is very key to the love triangle that seems to be forming with Dorothea and Casaubon.
5. These letters were uncomfortable to read. Ouch! You could just feel Casaubon's irritation and utter disgust toward his cousin. And then Ladislaw with his letter was a big "You're not the boss of me!" It was obviously, the end of any amiablity between the two characters.
6. I think what you had to say, Mimi, was very interesting! I had never thought of that. I felt this scene was sort of embarassing to read because you see this intimacy between two people who shouldn't be so close.
7. All of Casaubon's bad thoughts are festering and you can see how his inability to love has turned him to actually hate and become vindictive.
8. I think this shows Dorothea's soft heart and continuous virtue.
9. The Three love problems:
Dorothea and Casaubon - awful match
Fred and Mary - bad luck, lack of virtue on Fred's part
Rosamond and Lydgate - money
7.
I will try to answer a few of the questions as I recall from my reading, which was a while back.
1. I think the sentiments that the group from the window makes are natural and human sentiments--and feelings that I find myself expressing much of the time. I am constantly wondering what sorts of lives other people lead simply because I have a tendency to see the grass as greener from my perspective. In this day and age where we have so much information on the internet, it is so easy to fool ourselves that we know others, when, in fact, we really don't. It is very easy to convey a certain image on the internet in other arenas. I find myself wanting more intimacy with others whom I "meet" on the internet and that I want to see what kinds of lives they lead and how they handle things. My close, close friends always remind me that I am being naive if I think I really learn about another person from blogs, twitter, facebook--and they tell me not to fall into the trap of thinking these people all lead perfect, easy lives. Therefore, I think Eliot was alluding to a universal desire: the desire to know and see how others live and deal with their lives.
3. I agree with Mimi that Rosamand's way of handling of others to get her way is distasteful and immature--and that it does not bode well for the future of her relationship with Lydgate.
4. The parts of the book that discussed the Reform Act were sometimes difficult for me to comprehend--and often my eyes glazed over because I was interested more in the characters rather than in the politics (but I am more interested in plots dealing with characters as rule than in plots dealing with characters). I can understand how the discussion of this issue would have interested the people living in Eliot's time.
6. I agree with Mimi that this exchange mirrors Eliot's religious beliefs because she was not religious as she got older and wrote her novels. I think the attitude that is conveyed not only was reflective of the time that the novel was written but it also is reflective of our the religious climate now in which people are not willing to accept hard and fast religious dogma.
8. I think Dorothy views Causabon as a father figure, and that he condescends to her for much of the relationship. I would not be fulfilled with a relationship like that--I would want more attraction, more connection, something more fulfilling.
@Lauren - I pictured Rigg as being a short, bald man with big eyes and full lips.
I very much agree that Brooke's friendship with Ladislaw contributes to the love triangle.
@Ali - I like what you have to say about what we reveal to others in our interactions, even in blogging and online and in our family relationships. I think that's a key to Dorothea's marriage too - what do she and Casaubon reveal to each other, and what do they share?
about rigg - i had thought that it was aluded to that his mother was of another race, but i could most likely been mistaken. :) i was sort of shocked at the frog description so to see you didn't notice anything like that makes me think i misread. thanks!
@Lauren - one of the things I have learned is that I easily miss things in this novel, each time I go back and re-read I discover that I missed something. So, you very well may be correct, I don't remember getting that impression, BUT, I miss a lot in this book!
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1) Based on Dorothea's comments, I tend to think they watched from the window because of class difference--Mr. Featherstone wasn't in their social circle so they didn't go to the funeral, but being interested in neighborhood goings on, they watched. It seems like the result of this separation is that Dorothea is pretty isolated. I think she must mean that she interacts with the cottagers because of charitable doings, but that she has no call to interact with the middle class.
2) I thought it was kind of sad that in the end, Featherstone relented and wanted to give something to his family and to Fred, but that didn't happen since he had made this other will mainly just to spite everyone, apparently. It's especially hard on Mary for putting her in the situation he did. I suppose it's quite reasonable that he should leave everything to his son, but he definitely led everyone to dance attendance to him in hopes of getting his money, so the reactions of the characters weren't surprising. They naturally felt a bit bitter about it. It didn't occur to me that Rigg might be his son, so I was surprised about that. I was thinking he would turn out to be a lawyer of some kind.
3) I think this foreshadows what we see with Rosamund and her interest in her power over men. She exercises her power over her father here. I'll be curious to see how successful she'll be at manipulating Lydgate. As to whether Vincy approved the marriage willingly, I'd say he did, but more because he wanted to give Rosamund her way than because he thought it would be good for her.
4) I knew absolutely nothing about the Reform Act before. I must admit--my knowledge of British history is very spotty. It's been quite interesting to learn about--It led me to read up on it a bit, so I'm glad to have a better understand of how voting rights were expanded gradually. Brooke strikes me as kind of a political dilettante. It seems like a hobby for him, so it makes sense that he would hire someone. I don't know what to think of the friendship yet; it seems that Brooke is pretty oblivious of how he's affecting Ladislaw and Casaubon's relationship, and how that affects Dorothea as well.
5) The thing that surprised me the most was how being a newspaper editor was viewed so negatively. I guess it's seen as a trade? It's funny, since in our society that's a respected position for an educated person. I'm not sure if to some extent Casaubon is over-reacting, but it seemed like others referred to this as something that was not respectable, too. I tend to sympathize with Ladislaw, since I don't see anything wrong with taking the job, but I see how the response would rile up Casaubon. I think poor Dorothea just gets caught in the middle.
6) This is quite interesting to me, because Fr. Thomas Hopko has been doing a series of podcasts on Ancient Faith radio about Darwin and Christianity, and a few of them specifically deal with what Darwin would have experienced of Christianity in his time, and Darwin and Eliot were contemporaries, so I really recommend listening to these. I can't definitely see the relationship between the novel and what Fr. Tom describes about the CoE, such as how young men like Fred ended up in the Church. Also, I think this discussion reflects to some extent the growth of other Protestant groups in England then, the notion of individualism, and deciding for oneself rather than accepting what is taught.
7) I think that Casaubon does trust Lydgate, and he thinks he may die anytime. He thinks by leaving his money and land to Dorothea, Ladislaw will dupe her into marrying him so that he can get the money and property. I think it's not unreasonable for him to think this, since he also thinks Ladislaw put Dorothea up to the conversation about giving him some of their money. But it seems to me, that in actuality Ladislaw cares more about Dorothea than her money.
8) I think they Dorothea is starting to get a realistic view of who Casaubon is, and it's helping her to define her relationship with him. I think he still doesn't have much understanding of who she is, and I think he's so self-absorbed that it hasn't really occured to him that he should try to figure out who she is and what she needs from him rather than considering what he is obligated to provide. We end Chapter 42 and this section with Dorothea ruminating on her marriage to Causabon. What do you think of their relationship and what have they learned about each other? The end of the chapter states: "Dorothea!" he said, with a gentle surprise in his tone. The ending of the chapter is quite touching, because it's the first time they connect in any meaningful way.
9) To me it seemed like there were way more than three love problems, but there's the triangle of Casaubon, Dorothea and Ladislaw (that seems like 3 problems right there, since they each have their own), there's Mary Vincy and Fred, (with a bit of a triangle thrown in there too with the vicar whose name I can't recall), then there's Rosamund and Lydgate.
10) I think I've managed to throw in everything I wanted to talk about in the other questions.
In number 6, that should be I *can* definitely see the relationship between the novel and the CoE of Darwin's time described by Fr. Tom. That's why it was interesting!
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