Monday, August 03, 2009

Little Women – Chapters 1-9

Ok, I’ve come up with a few questions – go ahead an answer some or all in the comment box. As I was telling the lovely Marsha, if a discussion gets particularly good, I’ll probably pull it out of the comments and make a new post. And, I’m taking some feedback requests – is anyone worried about spoilers? I’m worried about how this will feed into a Blog reader for those who haven’t read it before. Please let me know before we move on if you need me to come up with some filler…

On that note, a bit about Louisa May Alcott from The Louisa May Alcott
House website.

Louisa May Alcott was born in Germantown, Pennsylvania on November 29, 1832. She and her three sisters, Anna, Elizabeth and May were educated by their father, philosopher/ teacher, Bronson Alcott and raised on the practical Christianity of their mother, Abigail May.

Louisa spent her childhood in Boston and in Concord, Massachusetts, where her days were enlightened by visits to Ralph Waldo Emerson’s library, excursions into nature with Henry David Thoreau and theatricals in the barn at Hillside (now Hawthorne’s "Wayside").

Like her character, Jo March in Little Women, young Louisa was a tomboy: "No boy could be my friend till I had beaten him in a race," she claimed, " and no girl if she refused to climb trees, leap fences...."

For Louisa, writing was an early passion. She had a rich imagination and often her stories became melodramas that she and her sisters would act out for friends. Louisa preferred to play the "lurid" parts in these plays, "the villains, ghosts, bandits, and disdainful queens."

At age 15, troubled by the poverty that plagued her family, she vowed: "I will do something by and by. Don’t care what, teach, sew, act, write, anything to help the family; and I’ll be rich and famous and happy before I die, see if I won’t!"
Confronting a society that offered little opportunity to women seeking employment, Louisa determined "...I will make a battering-ram of my head and make my way through this rough and tumble world." Whether as a teacher, seamstress, governess, or household servant, for many years Louisa did any work she could find.
Louisa’s career as an author began with poetry and short stories that appeared in popular magazines. In 1854, when she was 22, her first book Flower Fables was published. A milestone along her literary path was Hospital Sketches (1863) based on the letters she had written home from her post as a nurse in Washington, DC as a nurse during the Civil War.

When Louisa was 35 years old, her publisher Thomas Niles in Boston asked her to write "a book for girls." Little Women was written at Orchard House from May to July 1868. The novel is based on Louisa and her sisters’ coming of age and is set in Civil War New England. Jo March was the first American juvenile heroine to act from her own individuality; a living, breathing person rather than the idealized stereotype then prevalent in children’s fiction.

In all, Louisa published over 30 books and collections of stories. She died on March 6, 1888, only two days after her father, and is buried in Sleepy Hollow Cemetery in Concord.


Ok – questions:

1) The first chapter ends with a discussion between the four girls and their mother about Pilgrim’s Progress and how it applies to their lives. For those who have read Pilgrim’s Progress – how does your recollection of it match up with the way that the March family approaches their lives? For those of us who have not, how does the family approach match our impression of the book. For all – does this make a good framework for the story?

2) What is your impression of the four March girls? Which one most closely matches how you see yourself? Are the characters realistic?

3) I’m intrigued by the character of Beth. My mental impression of her has been that she was always sickly, but upon this reading, I am seeing a different character. What has struck you about the character of Beth, and does it match your previous impression of her?

4) For those who have read the book before (spoiler alerts in this question and answer) – knowing how it unfolds, are you seeing foreshadowing? If you have not read the book before – what is your impression of where the novel is going?

5)What did you think about Marmee and Jo’s discussion about anger and besetting sins? Do you think what Marmee said about the continual wrestling with a passion resonated with you and your experience? What did you think about Marmee and Mr. March’s agreement that he’d help her learn to curb her anger?

(my answers in the first comment)

18 Comments:

At 4:08 PM , Blogger Mimi said...

The first chapter ends with a discussion between the four girls and their mother about “Pilgrim’s Progress” and how it applies to their lives. For those who have read “Pilgrim’s Progress” – how does your recollection of it match up with the way that the March family approaches their lives? Fro those of us who have not, how the family approaches match our impression of the book. For all – does this make a good framework for the story?
I’ve never read “Pilgrim’s Progress” but I think I have a fairly good grasp on the basics of the allegory. I think that it is an excellent framework for the story and allows Alcott to unfold it as a series of vignettes that ultimately, I think help show the growth of the characters. I’ve also been pleased to see Biblical references in the story, and the way they are part of the characters essence. I realize this is indicative of the time that it was written.
What is your impression of the four March girls? Which one most closely matches how you see yourself? Are the characters realistic?
In many ways, I think that the characters are not that dimensional at first. I think that Meg is indicative of Vanity, Jo of Rashness, Beth of Gentleness, and Amy of Youth. But, I think that as the characters evolve, even though we do still seem the act within their framework, they are also shown growing. I think this ties in a lot with the framework of “The Pilgrim’s Progress” that Alcott introduced in the first chapter.
I would say the character I identify most with is Jo (especially with the rash speaking and with the bookworm attributes) – but I don’t discount that I see a lot of Meg in myself as well.
I’m intrigued by the character of Beth. My mental impression of her has been that she was always sickly, but upon this reading, I am seeing a different character. What has struck you about the character of Beth, and does it match your previous impression of her? I am correctly remembering that she is sickly and very gentle. What I was surprised by is that she is portrayed as very anxious (unable to attend school due to her “delicateness”) and the way that she interacts with the dolls that have been outgrown by the other sisters. It is an interesting subtext and one that makes me wonder about how the society that Alcott lived in accommodated her “delicateness”. I’m very much looking forward to seeing others impressions of this character.
For those who have read the book before (spoiler alerts in this question and answer) – knowing how it unfolds, are you seeing foreshadowing? If you have not read the book before – what is your impression of where the novel is going? . For all of the joking about “why did Jo make the decision that she did” in my original post (and in Quindlen’s essay), knowing what marriage decision she and Amy make has helped me to note the subtleties of their relationships with Laurie.

What did you think about Marmee and Jo’s discussion about anger and besetting sins? Do you think what Marmee said about the continual wrestling with a passion resonated with you and your experience? What did you think about Marmee and Mr. March’s agreement that he’d help her learn to curb her anger? I do not remember this aspect at all, but I really liked the way that Marmee was upfront about her struggle with the passion of anger – and the way that she counsels Jo to be on guard about her own sins. It very much matches up with the battling of the passions that we see written about in Orthodoxy (and Catholicism) and I definitely think another way that Alcott brings out the “Pilgrims Progress” theme.
I loved the way that Mr. March (I have no recollection of his first name) and Marmee have this understanding, and how Jo picks up on seeing their interactions. I also laughed at Marmee’s comment about struggling with anger when her kids were little and finances were tight – how true that is.

 
At 7:53 PM , Blogger Marsha said...

#1: Interestingly enough, I read Pilgrim's Progress many times growing up and recently purchased a copy again. I am anxious now to read it again. I thought it was a wonderful way to do character development in an honest humble manner.

#2: Jo, definitely, thought not as exaggerated as she is. I was a tomboy who loved to read and write as well. She's always been my favorite! I thought of the four that Beth and amy suffered from two-dimensional-ness the most. Perhaps because Beth died and therefore was a sacrosanct character, and there was clearly some friction between Amy and Jo that could have led to the careful way she is spoken of as well.

#3.When I was younger, I found Beth extremely uninteresting. And then she died, so that wasn't very interesting either. The time period was fond of death scenes, we don't see them that way in modern novels. I wonder what diagnosis she would receive nowadays.

#4. I've read the book so many times that it's hard to answer this one. In real life, as you know, Jo/Louisa didn't marry at all and her younger sister did indeed marry the boy next door that all had assumed Jo/Louisa would, so that colors my perception as well.

#5. Unfortunately, I wasn't raised with the idea that we gently worked on our besetting sin. I love that idea, and I'm reading it as a mother now, and gaining some ideas, hopefully. I have a hard time imagining such a respectful, trusting relationship as asking your husband to help with your besetting sin as well.

 
At 8:02 AM , Blogger Janelle said...

1. I'm familiar with Pilgrim's Progress but haven't actually read it. Although I do think the use of PP provides a framework for the journey each of the girls takes from adolescence to adulthood, it's always felt like an artificial imposition to me, and too goody-goody to be true, LOL.

2. Jo is certainly the most fully-realized of the girls, which makes sense since she IS Louisa in many ways. I was always able to relate to her bookish ways very well. However, Meg's oldest sister bossiness resonates with me, too! I think the characters are fairly realistic--Alcott certainly showcases their idiosyncrasies and foibles in a way that makes them feel real even all these years later.

3. My favorite scene with Beth is where she summons up her courage to face Mr Laurence and give him the slippers she made for him. I was a shy child myself. I'm interested in what you said, Mimi, about the society of the time accommodating a child like that-- since girls were supposed to be shy and retiring--and "sickliness" was such a common thing that covered so many possible ailments. Beth more than the other characters seems very much a Victorian-era creation.

 
At 11:40 AM , Blogger Marsha said...

oh, I apologize in advance for my verbosity, but I will speak one more thing about the morality vis a vis "Pilgrim's Progress". It is a useful analogy, and since Bunyan wrote it as allegory, perhaps appropriate.

But I was struck while reading the book at how much talk is of "being good". Not much mention of God himself except as a benevolent Father figure. And the struggle to reach the Celestial City (heaven) and losing one's burden (passionss) were couched in the language of typical American Protestantism/Puritanism: work hard, stay busy, act cheerful, and be good, do good and if you are good enough, one day the Heavenly gates will swing open.

I realize that Alcott was an intellectual liberal of her region and time period that produced such minds as Emerson, Thoreau and so on; and therefore probably felt uncomfortable with strictly religious language. But the struggle seems to me to be joyless put in those terms, and once the desire to "do good and be good" has faded, there is no other impetus for the struggle. And I think we've seen that in the larger culture in many ways in the 100 or so years since the book was written.

For what it's worth anyway.

 
At 1:51 PM , Blogger ::Sylvia:: said...

Wow! I'm so excited! I'm totally in on this! I don't have time to answer the questions right now but will tomorrow. I'm off to catch up to you guys!

BTW, Pilgrim's Progress is now on DVD. :) JFYI...

 
At 3:36 PM , Blogger Mimi said...

Firstly, I welcome and encourage verbosity, mulling and posting multiple times as thoughts occur, and most of all the great discussion that is unfolding. As I’m sure you noted, I am wordy as well, grin!

Marsha - Not much mention of God himself except as a benevolent Father figure. And the struggle to reach the Celestial City (heaven) and losing one's burden (passionss) were couched in the language of typical American Protestantism/Puritanism: work hard, stay busy, act cheerful, and be good, do good and if you are good enough, one day the Heavenly gates will swing open.

Yes, I agree. In fact, I was contemplating that there was no mention of what the books were that each girl got on Christmas morning – and in fact, when I look back upon my impressions from previous reads, I – who didn’t grow up in a very religious household – am not sure that I really understood what they were. I did always love the different colors of the bibles, though.

Janelle - My favorite scene with Beth is where she summons up her courage to face Mr Laurence and give him the slippers she made for him. I was a shy child myself. I'm interested in what you said, Mimi, about the society of the time accommodating a child like that-- since girls were supposed to be shy and retiring--and "sickliness" was such a common thing that covered so many possible ailments. Beth more than the other characters seems very much a Victorian-era creation.

I love that scene too – and can see how it would resonate when one is also shy. I very much agree with you and with Marsha’s note about Beth’s character being one dimensional as well. She *is* very Victorian in personality, what I’d consider milquetoast – and very reflective of the times that it was written. And, what did it mean to be a Victorian girl. Clearly this is what Alcott, through Jo, shows that she struggles against. The natural tenancy to not be shy and retiring and to say what she thought, and how she felt constrained by it.

Marsha - In real life, as you know, Jo/Louisa didn't marry at all and her younger sister did indeed marry the boy next door that all had assumed Jo/Louisa would, so that colors my perception as well.

I didn’t know that, Marsha. Thanks. One of the things that I am noticing reading this time is the relationship between Amy and Laurie. I’ve thought that she wanted to marry him because it was a way of supplanting Jo, but there’s a tenderness to his relationship to her that I’ve noted upon this reading – one instance stands out in the ice skating episode (I’m not sure if that is in the first 9 chapters, since I read some last night as well)

Thank you! I’m loving this conversation! And, I'm definitely thinking I need to read "Pilgrim's Progress" - or watch it at least, Sevvy!

 
At 9:55 PM , Blogger Janelle said...

I was struck while reading the book at how much talk is of "being good". Not much mention of God himself except as a benevolent Father figure. And the struggle to reach the Celestial City (heaven) and losing one's burden (passions) were couched in the language of typical American Protestantism/Puritanism: work hard, stay busy, act cheerful, and be good, do good and if you are good enough, one day the Heavenly gates will swing open.

(Don't know if my attempts at italicizing will work or not...!) But it was not until extremely recently that I realized that the books the girls received on Christmas morning were Bibles! Alcott's religious references do seem to be more of the generic Americanized type, I'm sure due to her background. Wasn't her family Unitarian, or at least part of a circle which included Unitarians?

 
At 4:57 AM , Blogger Marsha said...

Janelle, they were Enlightened, which doesn't mean Buddhist LOL. I think it referred to a specific very intellectual type of "good" person, so yes UU sounds about right.

I do know that IRL the Alcotts were part of a commune. New England during those days was not Victorian as one might imagine, but rather a hotbed of well, rather strange ideas. They were full of Utopia and intelligence, kind of Victorian hippies, if you will.

IRL her father lost his money through being well, lazy and thoughtless about his money, He still may have been the unworldly, good person that Mr. March is, but it's implied that Mr. Alcott simply was careless and lost his money and at the commune the women had to work their tails off while the men sat around and discussed Utopia. Kind of Jewish in a way, another society where intellectualism is prized.

 
At 5:00 AM , Blogger Peacocks and Sunflowers said...

Thanks for your comments on Chocolate Teapot, Mimi! Now that I'm back from camp, I'll catch up and read along with Little Women.

 
At 11:52 AM , Blogger Elizabeth @ The Garden Window said...

I am desperately trying to find my copy so I can take part !

My favourite character - and the one I would want to be - is Jo, but in reality I am more like a composite of all of Meg and Amy's faults ..........

 
At 12:14 PM , Anonymous Grace said...

1 - I'm glad you asked about Pilgrim's Progress, because I was struck by its inclusion in the book. I confess that it made me long for the time when an author could assume that everyone knew that book so well that it could be referenced without explanation (the drought, the lions, etc.). But they were much more engaged in the book than I was when I read it about 20 years ago, and that's much, MUCH more engaged than readers would be today, I assume.

2 - Are the characters realistic - They're all very easy to relate to, even when you find them a little exasperating (as I did often with Amy), which I assume is some of the reason for the enduring quality of this book. They're *close* to being plastic sometimes, but they don't ever quite get there. On the other hand, they often seem like the girl-group you wish you had. Which one comes closest to how I see myself? Gotta be Jo!

3 - Sickly Beth: Isn't Beth a dear? They don't come out and say that she's sickly, but somehow I infer it all the same. There's something about that level of extreme shyness and introversion that makes me think that, I guess.

4 - My background again is that I saw the movie but hadn't read the book till now. And I've been wondering if the book actually gets us all the way up to Jo, Meg and Amy being engaged/married, or if they're borrowing from a sequel. Because I can't imagine the book getting there at the pace it's going.

5 - The passion speech - I wanted to like that discussion more than I did. As good a person as Marmee is made out to be, I confess I don't find her believable. And so I didn't find myself buying into the idea that her saintly husband helps her control her temper.

Many thanks for all this, Mimi! I'm really enjoying reading this right now.

 
At 12:31 PM , Anonymous Grace said...

Just read all the other comments, and I have to add a couple other things:

* The Christmas present books were Bibles?? Boy, I missed that. Somehow, I thought that they were Pilgrim's Progress. But then I was confused, because they obviously already had a copy. Okay, Alcott WAS being a little oblique there (or else I was being dense).

* Hooray for Martha for putting her finger on the Protestant/Puritan mindset. It was bothering me, though I didn't figure it out as precisely as she did, but I didn't want to criticize, because I know this is a much-loved book and I didn't want to be a drag.

* It's very interesting to find out what Alcott's real life was like with her sisters. I found myself wondering if she had a sister that she had a bit of a problem with, either from childhood or after some kind of falling out as adults. Because she writes Amy as a character that almost no one could sympathize with. And having her burn up Jo's irreplaceable book is an action so ugly and spiteful that I found myself thinking that in real life, those two sisters would probably never quite patch things up completely.

 
At 1:04 PM , Blogger Mimi said...

Janelle – Yep, the italics worked! I also agree on your comments.
Marsha – thanks for the further information on the Alcotts.
Janelle and Grace - You know, I think that she was being very oblique on what the books were that they received, since the majority of us didn’t know or figure it out until recently.
Grace – yes, I agree. She is assuming a familiarity with Pilgrim’s Progress definitely, and I think it is a cultural familiarity with it. I wonder if it would have been taught at schools? I’m guessing the answer was yes and probably read at home.

Hooray for Martha for putting her finger on the Protestant/Puritan mindset. It was bothering me, though I didn't figure it out as precisely as she did,

The chapter that this particularly is strong is the one where everyone is off of work (this may be in the second section) and the girls are talking about how they aren’t going to do any work, and of course, the house falls down around their ears, they get crotchety and realize that they need their work. So they joyfully go back to working their fingers to the bone and whistling while birds land on their shoulders… Ok, clearly I’m not Puritan in attitude, but that was the impression left.

And having her burn up Jo's irreplaceable book is an action so ugly and spiteful that I found myself thinking that in real life, those two sisters would probably never quite patch things up completely.

I agree, it is such a violation. And I’m not sure that Marmee’s “don’t let the sun go down on your anger” is appropriate. I do get what she’s saying (and IIRC, this is what leads to the discussion of anger being her besetting sin – and I can definitely see the argument that that felt forced. I do think that a key may be that Mr. March is a pastor, what do you think?) but I think that there was a lack of awareness of just how vile the action had been.
Of course, I don’t think she should have been banished from the household or anything, but an acknowledgement of how far she’d crossed the line should have been there.

I do have to admit, I love Amy’s malapropisms. I laughed out loud at “Laurie is a regular Cyclops, isn’t he?” Bwahhaahahahhahahahaa.

 
At 8:53 PM , Blogger Rosemary said...

Sorry to be joining the conversation a little late...
1. I have not read P.P. But I think it does make a good framework for the story. After the subject of "Pilgrim's Progress" comes up I did find their awareness of and discussion of their individual faults a little more believable. Before that, unlike when I read this book as a girl, I did think this family a little sickeningly good. (as in to the point of lacking realism) These were, after all, teenagers.

2. As a girl, I just loved all the March girls, especially Jo and Beth. (probably because I could sympathize most with their flaws). I entirely enjoyed the goodness of the family. As an adult, I did find myself thinking at first, oh come on. In spite of the mention of each of their flaws they were almost caricatures of goodness. But I must say as I went on I enjoyed them all as much as when I was young. I can relate most to Jo. I read all the time as a young girls and still enjoy reading and writing. I also share her faults.:-)
3. I also thought of Beth as always sickly. This time, I also thought of her as rather emotionally weak. She seems sweet but also rather imbalanced. (excessively anxious-- not just shy) And the rituals with the needy dolls struck me as rather odd. Still, I like her. She is endearing- my second favorite character.
4. I do see some foreshadowing, like you, Mimi, in regards to Jo and Laurie's relationship.
5. Yes, Marmee's words regarding "wrestling with passion" did resonate with me. Her agreement with Mr. March seemed very surprising and a little idealistic. (Wonderful, if indeed it worked. Ideal). I would think a spouse would more often be the recipient of an anger problem rather than part of the solution. Again, may be a little idealistic? Marsha's comments about the Alcotts were very interesting to me-- their having been part of a commune, etc.

 
At 1:40 PM , Blogger Mimi said...

Rosemary - This time, I also thought of her as rather emotionally weak. She seems sweet but also rather imbalanced. (excessively anxious-- not just shy) And the rituals with the needy dolls struck me as rather odd. Still, I like her. She is endearing- my second favorite character. Yes, this struck me as well. I think if she lived today (and weren’t fictional) she’d definitely be diagnosed with an anxiety order.

 
At 2:12 PM , Blogger Sarah in Indiana said...

OK, I realize I'm very late to the party, but I can't resist joining in. I love Little Women, and I recently read March by Geraldine Brooks, so I'd been wanting to do a re-read. As I finish the sections I'll add my comments, late though they may be.


1)I've never read Pilgrim's Progress (I think I'll read it next) Most everything I know about it comes from reading Little Women. I think that it does provide a nice framework for this section of the book, and it helps make the characters seem a little more natural, even though they're not fully fleshed out.

As a child (also not coming from a religious family), I did not realize the books were Bibles. I thought they were copies of PP as well. I realized it upon this reading and was surprised it's so oblique.

2)Beth was my favorite when I was young--for one that's my middle name, and I always liked characters who share my name. I don't think I feel I closely match up with any of the four, but I identify in different ways with them all, which is one of the things that made the book so appealing to me. I think Jo is naturally the one who modern women would most want to be like. She's smart, independent, strong and playful.

3) I think the thing that strikes me most is how loving Beth is--looking back I guess that's why she was so appealing to me. She's so sweet and considerate, and I identified with her shyness. Her mothering of her dolls and her sisters seems especially tragic, knowing of her death.

4) I definitely see foreshadowing, about Jo and Laurie (not as much about Amy, that really did come off as a shock to me when I first read the book) and about Beth (the castles in the air scene) and Meg as well. One of the things that struck me is that Amy and Jo's aspirations seem really unrealistic for women of the time, and yet Alcott actually realized her dreams of being a successful, wealthy author.


5)Probably the continual wrestling with a passion resonates with any Orthodox Christian. An interesting thing about the novel March, is the way Brooks perceives the relationship between Marmee and March. She gives back story about the temper thing, which makes this seem more realistic, showing more tension between the two over this, and but it seems not as sweet and loving as Alcott portrays it.

About Amy burning Jo's book, I agree that I would have been furious with Amy, and I felt she got of the hook too easily. It's so horrifying to think off that loss of Jo's work. But reading it as an adult I realize how much younger than Jo she is, really still a child.

 
At 7:14 PM , Blogger Mimi said...

Sarah - An interesting thing about the novel March, is the way Brooks perceives the relationship between Marmee and March. She gives back story about the temper thing, which makes this seem more realistic, showing more tension between the two over this, I wish I'd just read March, or read March after I re-read Little Women, because I remember a vague hinting of their relationship, but I don't think I'd caught this in my last read so it was fresh in my mind when I read it.

 
At 7:14 PM , Blogger Mimi said...

I also love the way you relate to Beth - I think that her shyness and childlike qualities resonate beautifully. And how cool of a middle name!

 

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