Chapters 13-24 of Book the Second
1) What did you think of Chapter 13’s interaction between Lucie and Sydney Carton?
2) In Chapter 14, what did you think of Mr. Cruncher’s “fishing trip?” Did you see a parallel or a contrast with the theme of “recalled to life” and with Mrs. Cruncher’s religious beliefs?
3) As we begin Chapter 15, we read “No vivacious Bacchanalian flame leaped out of the pressed grape of Monsieur Defarge: but, a smouldering fire that burnt in the dark, lay hidden in the dregs of it.” – do you think that Dickens captures the motivations of these men who will become Revolutionaries?
4) Madame Defarge’s knitting is explained in this chapter, “if madame my wife undertook to keep the register in her memory alone, she would not lose a word of it--not a syllable of it. Knitted, in her own stitches and her own symbols, it will always be as plain to her as the sun. Confide in Madame Defarge. It would be easier for the weakest poltroon that lives, to erase himself from existence, than to erase one letter of his name or crimes from the knitted register of Madame Defarge." – there have been references and allusions to this knitting throughout the book. Is it an effective metaphor and explanation?
5) As events move along, what do you think of Madame and Monseiur Defarge being equal partners? Also, what do you think of Saint Antoine being personified?
6) A meeting between Darney and Manette just prior to the wedding causes Manette to relapse. What do you think was the topic, and of the relapse? What did you think of Lorry’s discussion with Manette, and of the way that he and Miss Pross solved the issue?
7) Carton is interceded for by Lucie again when she returns from their honeymoon. Was this an effective connection to the beginning of the section?
8) The passage of time is marked with sorrows and the echoes of footsteps in the next section. What do you think of the way this was handled, and of the events that occurred, and those who were included as extended family?
9) The section ends as the Revolution begins and Darney is called back to Paris, “(t)he unseen force was drawing him fast to itself, now, and all the tides and winds were setting straight and strong towards it. He left his two letters with a trusty porter, to be delivered half an hour before midnight, and no sooner; took horse for Dover; and began his journey. "For the love of Heaven, of justice, of generosity, of the honour of your noble name!" was the poor prisoner's cry with which he strengthened his sinking heart, as he left all that was dear on earth behind him, and floated away for the Loadstone Rock.” What did you think of these events and was the foundation for the final section well laid?
10) Anything I’ve missed (this was a packed section, so I assume there will be, grin!)
Quotations from this site.
posted by Mimi @ 3/29/2011 09:30:00 PM
7 Comments
7 Comments:
1 - Chapter 13, Lucie & Mr. Carton: What a weird chapter that was, at least for me. I felt like I couldn't make heads or tails out of it. Somehow I missed before that Carton was an alcoholic -- I thought he was just a loud, florid person. And then in Chap. 13, he's rhapsodizing along in flowery language about how desperately irredeemable he is, all the time making sure she knows that he's going to go right on being so lost and pitiful. What drunk ever talked that way, even in Dickens' time? It seemed completely contrived.
2 - Cruncher's fishing trip: I thought this chapter was just too unsavory for enjoyable reading on any level. As I said in the first set of questions, I feel like this character is supposed to be grim but somehow comical, but I only find him revolting, and the whole "joke" of him abusing his poor wife to keep her from praying or even meditating is just cruel beyond words. I wonder if it struck Dickens' readers differently.
3 - Smoldering fire: That may say it best. He gives a strong impression of people who have become fixated with an idea, but not anything that makes them smarter, stronger, or better. At the same time that you feel pity for people living under this kind of barbaric oppression, you can feel how low-functioning they are.
4 - knitting: Is it just me, or is this just a man's mistaken concept of knitting? A person couldn't quickly and efficiently knit words and codes into things, and if you could, they would be plainly obvious to anyone who looked at the knitting. It's a neat-sounding trick, but completely impractical. But I haven't knitted in years -- am I wrong?
5 - Boy, Mme Dufarge starts to seem like a grim old woman. You start to get the impression that she actually possesses the brains in the family, and also the guts.
As I said before, the St. Antoine thing just doesn't resonate very well with me. But maybe I've just missed something.
6 - Dr. Manette's relapse: Darned if I know what he and Darney talked about to bring on his spell.
I thought this whole chapter still had a little of the Victorian poetic license, but not so much to spoil things. As a matter of fact, the whole relapse almost seems realistic. And if you were going to try to snap someone out of something like that, that very patient action of just being there, being normal, seem like they'd be your best bet. Poor old Dr. Manette. Thought it was rather touching that Lorry lets him talk about himself in the third person just to save face when he's come back to his senses.
7 - Carton & Lucie. Thought this was rather silly. I guess I'm not a fan of these characters' interactions.
8 - Passage of time: The footsteps thing was maybe a little ham-fisted as a device (I almost imagine an old silent movie), though it's a fair way to cover years in short passages. But then that chapter (21, I think) shifts over to the Revolution, and it seems anything but quaint.
9 - the Loadstone Rock: I was *very* annoyed with Darnay for doing something so dangerous and pointless, but I suppose honor demanded it. It's definitely a good cliff-hanger ending.
BTW, I'm thankful to my footnotes for telling me that the loadstone reference "comes from 'The Third Kalandar's Tale' in 'The Arabian Night's Entertainments'; the hero , Ajib, finds his ship drawn magnetically toward a mysterious black mountain made of loadstone."
10 - Thought that chapter 21 & 22 (storming the Bastille and the aftermath) were some of the best and most gripping so far, though of course, also the most sensationalist.
Hey, where did everybody go? :-o
Eeek! Sorry my dear! I have a bit to re-read before I get the last set of questions written, and then I'll answer these! These past couple of weeks have gotten away from me, but I so loved the book!
Mwah! Thank you for being here! I'll be here soon!
1)I thought that the interaction was really sweet between Lucie and Sydney. I think that Dickens had a twofold purpose in the interaction. Firstly, I think he was establishing Lucie’s golden thread as encompassing more than just Darney, but also I thought that he was setting the stage for not quite a love triangle, because I don’t think that Lucie loves Carlton back, but an unrequited love of Lucie by Sydney. I do see the argument, though, of it being kind of melodramatic Victorianism as well.
2)I was trying to make this chapter work into the “Recalled to Life” motif, but it was just awful and horrible. I hated the way that Mr. Cruncher behaves towards his wife, and how his son follows him. It was just an icky chapter.
3) I think that Dickens does capture the pre-revolutionary mood very well. One thing I’ve really been attuned to in the past several years, is how once a bottle like that is uncorked, the results are unpredictable, and beyond the control of those who uncork it. Most want to see the same system, with themselves on top, not a complete wiping away of the old, I think. It’s an interesting thought, one that I keep coming back to, and one that I think that Dickens captures well.
I also really liked the way that he intertwined the wine and the revolutionaries. He was in masterful control of his words and his themes.
4) It’s interesting, when I read about Madame Defarge’s knitting, I assumed that it was figurative, and greatly enjoyed the compelling (at least to me) arguments that it was real. I also really liked this metaphor of the knitting as interweaving the names, crimes, and people into this one thread.
5) This section really is the pinnacle of the Defarge partnership. They are truly portrayed as equals and I like that a lot. I loved the scene with Barsad in the bar – he thought he was playing them, but he was truly being played. It was a rare comedic scene in this novel.
I like the personification of Saint Antoine, I think it is well done, and ties in with the buzzing crowd that Dickens established in London during Darney’s trial.
6) I think I was slower in putting together that Manette and Darney had a history than other readers along were, but once I did make the connection, this scene was particularly poignant. While the way that Lorry introduced Lucie to her father didn’t sit well with me, the way that Pross and he got Manette to talk about how to solve the problem in the third person was very well done.
7) I think it was a good way to bring it back around, and to continue to weave the golden thread.
8) I really liked the way that the passage of time was very pastoral, and very real. A dear friend and I had tea and were discussing this chapter and we discussed the way that losing the son was part of this pastoral and real life of the time, and Dickens portrayed it very well. I also liked that Carton, Lorry, and Pross made up the extended family in their life, and it felt very natural.
A side note, I find that to be an interesting aspect of novels of this time (I’m thinking of Jane Austen here, too) – we’d never arrive at a shoestring relative, or a friend’s house for an extended visit, often unannounced – but it was very natural and accepted. In a lot of ways, I guess when you have more house than one can really live in, it makes sense.
9) I really liked the way that Darney’s return to Paris tied in with the footsteps echoing throughout the section. I also felt that it had an air of inevitability. I think that was a very good point that his not telling Lucie was not only because he didn’t want to hurt her, but because of his nobility (or upper-classness) that she isn’t aware of, and his familial culpability in the revolution.
I should clarify, I don't consider Madame Defarge's actual knitting to be figurative, but the weaving in of the names and dates to have been figurative.
However, I think there are some good arguments for it not being figurative either.
Grace - On Cruncher, after finishing the entire novel, I feel that there is redemption there, but up until then, he is utterly distasteful and this chapter was awful.
I agree with your thoughts on the smoldering fire as well. I think he captures the conflagration well too - how it is out of hand really before it has finished sparking.
Ooooh, very good point about the sensationalism of the ending chapters of this section - you can feel the way that it was serialized, and how this was a cliffhanger ;)
(my agreement, also, on the note about the allusion. Had I not read that in my copy, I'd have had no idea, having never actually read the 1001 Nights)
Hey, where ya been?
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